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@erikjohnston erikjohnston commented Aug 30, 2024

@erikjohnston erikjohnston marked this pull request as ready for review August 30, 2024 09:59
@anoadragon453 anoadragon453 added feature Suggestion for a significant extension which needs considerable consideration proposal A matrix spec change proposal kind:core MSC which is critical to the protocol's success labels Aug 30, 2024
@uhoreg uhoreg added the client-server Client-Server API label Aug 30, 2024
@turt2live turt2live added the needs-implementation This MSC does not have a qualifying implementation for the SCT to review. The MSC cannot enter FCP. label Aug 30, 2024
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Implementation requirements:

  • Client (ideally multiple)
  • Server

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Current implementations to my knowledge:

  • Client implementation: matrix-rust-sdk (PR)
  • Server implementation: has been implemented in Synapse across 10s of PRs. (Perhaps @MadLittleMods, the implementer, can give better link(s) here.)

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conduwuit has implemented simplified sliding sync in https://github.com/girlbossceo/conduwuit/pull/666


The current `/sync` endpoint scales badly as the number of rooms on an account increases. It scales badly because all
rooms are returned to the client, incremental syncs are unbounded and slow down based on how long the user has been
offline, and clients cannot opt-out of a large amount of extraneous data such as receipts. On large accounts with
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Can't data be removed with filters? (See RoomFilter)

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Specifically, I believe you can opt-out of receipts with RoomFilter.ephemeral.not_types = [ "m.read.*" ] or similar. When I was working on filtering support in grapevine, we had a fast path for filters like this that would skip reading any of the receipt data from the db server-side. That work hasn't been finished yet, and I have no idea if synapse has a similar fast-path.

One of the difficulties with v3 sync filtering in general is that performance can vary wildly wildly depending on server implementation details. The spec doesn't indicate which fast-paths should exist, and whether or not you hit a fast-path can also affect how many events are returned in the sync window (matrix-org/matrix-spec#1887).

Comment on lines 234 to 236
// The position to use as the `since` token in the next sliding sync request.
// c.f. Connections.
"pos": "<opaque string>",
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I think there was an effort to standardize pagination terminology?

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Currently SCT is leaning towards: from and next_batch instead of pos everywhere.

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Having thought about it a little more, I'm not sure that next_batch as a name really fits with how the API works. It does match pagination APIs, which is a plus, but not totally convinced about it.

// The "heroes" for the room, if there is no room name. Only sent initially and when it changes.
"heroes": [
{"user_id":"@alice:example.com","displayname":"Alice","avatar_url":"mxc://..."},
],
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Do the heroes membership state events need to be included in required_state response when requesting required_state: ["m.room.member", "$LAZY"] (lazy-loading room members)?

Sync v2 says this:

When lazy-loading room members is enabled, the membership events for the heroes MUST be included in the state, unless they are redundant. When the list of users changes, the server notifies the client by sending a fresh list of heroes. If there are no changes since the last sync, this field may be omitted.

But I think that's because m.heroes in Sync v2 is only a list of user ID's. Whereas, in the sliding sync response here, we already have all of the info necessary in these stripped events.

One alternative is to match Sync v2 and only list the user ID's in heroes and include the membership events in required_state.

Comment on lines 256 to 258
"heroes": [
{"user_id":"@alice:example.com","displayname":"Alice","avatar_url":"mxc://..."},
],
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One weird corner with the current spec: If the room doesn't have a name set and the user is invited/knock to the room, we don't have any heroes to provide here. This is because heroes membership isn't included in the stripped state that the server receives when they are invited/knocked over federation.

Related to matrix-org/matrix-spec#380

This was solved for partial-joins via MSC3943

Not necessarily a blocker but just calling out something that won't work completely until that spec issue is solved.

netbsd-srcmastr pushed a commit to NetBSD/pkgsrc that referenced this pull request Sep 14, 2024
# Synapse 1.114.0 (2024-09-02)

This release enables support for
[MSC4186](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#4186) —
Simplified Sliding Sync. This allows using the upcoming releases of the Element
X mobile apps without having to run a Sliding Sync Proxy.


### Features

- Enable native sliding sync support ([MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) and [MSC4186](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#4186)) by default. ([\#17648](element-hq/synapse#17648))




# Synapse 1.114.0rc3 (2024-08-30)

### Bugfixes

- Fix regression in v1.114.0rc2 that caused workers to fail to start. ([\#17626](element-hq/synapse#17626))




# Synapse 1.114.0rc2 (2024-08-30)

### Features

- Improve cross-signing upload when using [MSC3861](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3861) to use a custom UIA flow stage, with web fallback support. ([\#17509](element-hq/synapse#17509))
- Make `hash_password` script accept password input from stdin. ([\#17608](element-hq/synapse#17608))

### Bugfixes

- Fix hierarchy returning 403 when room is accessible through federation. Contributed by Krishan (@kfiven). ([\#17194](element-hq/synapse#17194))
- Fix content-length on federation `/thumbnail` responses. ([\#17532](element-hq/synapse#17532))
- Fix authenticated media responses using a wrong limit when following redirects over federation. ([\#17543](element-hq/synapse#17543))

### Internal Changes

- MSC3861: load the issuer and account management URLs from OIDC discovery. ([\#17407](element-hq/synapse#17407))
- Refactor sliding sync class into multiple files. ([\#17595](element-hq/synapse#17595))
- Store sliding sync per-connection state in the database. ([\#17599](element-hq/synapse#17599))
- Make the sliding sync `PerConnectionState` class immutable. ([\#17600](element-hq/synapse#17600))
- Add support to `@tag_args` for standalone functions. ([\#17604](element-hq/synapse#17604))
- Speed up incremental syncs in sliding sync by adding some more caching. ([\#17606](element-hq/synapse#17606))
- Always return the user's own read receipts in sliding sync. ([\#17617](element-hq/synapse#17617))
- Replace `isort` and `black` with `ruff`. ([\#17620](element-hq/synapse#17620))
- Refactor sliding sync code to move room list logic out into a separate class. ([\#17622](element-hq/synapse#17622))



### Updates to locked dependencies

* Bump attrs from 23.2.0 to 24.2.0. ([\#17609](element-hq/synapse#17609))
* Bump cryptography from 42.0.8 to 43.0.0. ([\#17584](element-hq/synapse#17584))
* Bump phonenumbers from 8.13.43 to 8.13.44. ([\#17610](element-hq/synapse#17610))
* Bump pygithub from 2.3.0 to 2.4.0. ([\#17612](element-hq/synapse#17612))
* Bump pyyaml from 6.0.1 to 6.0.2. ([\#17611](element-hq/synapse#17611))
* Bump sentry-sdk from 2.12.0 to 2.13.0. ([\#17585](element-hq/synapse#17585))
* Bump serde from 1.0.206 to 1.0.208. ([\#17581](element-hq/synapse#17581))
* Bump serde from 1.0.208 to 1.0.209. ([\#17613](element-hq/synapse#17613))
* Bump serde_json from 1.0.124 to 1.0.125. ([\#17582](element-hq/synapse#17582))
* Bump serde_json from 1.0.125 to 1.0.127. ([\#17614](element-hq/synapse#17614))
* Bump types-jsonschema from 4.23.0.20240712 to 4.23.0.20240813. ([\#17583](element-hq/synapse#17583))
* Bump types-setuptools from 71.1.0.20240726 to 71.1.0.20240818. ([\#17586](element-hq/synapse#17586))

# Synapse 1.114.0rc1 (2024-08-20)

### Features

- Add a flag to `/versions`, `org.matrix.simplified_msc3575`, to indicate whether experimental sliding sync support has been enabled. ([\#17571](element-hq/synapse#17571))
- Handle changes in `timeline_limit` in experimental sliding sync. ([\#17579](element-hq/synapse#17579))
- Correctly track read receipts that should be sent down in experimental sliding sync. ([\#17575](element-hq/synapse#17575), [\#17589](element-hq/synapse#17589), [\#17592](element-hq/synapse#17592))

### Bugfixes

- Start handlers for new media endpoints when media resource configured. ([\#17483](element-hq/synapse#17483))
- Fix timeline ordering (using `stream_ordering` instead of topological ordering) in experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint. ([\#17510](element-hq/synapse#17510))
- Fix experimental sliding sync implementation to remember any updates in rooms that were not sent down immediately. ([\#17535](element-hq/synapse#17535))
- Better exclude partially stated rooms if we must await full state in experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint. ([\#17538](element-hq/synapse#17538))
- Handle lower-case http headers in `_Mulitpart_Parser_Protocol`. ([\#17545](element-hq/synapse#17545))
- Fix fetching federation signing keys from servers that omit `old_verify_keys`. Contributed by @tulir @ Beeper. ([\#17568](element-hq/synapse#17568))
- Fix bug where we would respond with an error when a remote server asked for media that had a length of 0, using the new multipart federation media endpoint. ([\#17570](element-hq/synapse#17570))

### Improved Documentation

- Clarify default behaviour of the
  [`auto_accept_invites.worker_to_run_on`](https://element-hq.github.io/synapse/develop/usage/configuration/config_documentation.html#auto-accept-invites)
  option. ([\#17515](element-hq/synapse#17515))
- Improve docstrings for profile methods. ([\#17559](element-hq/synapse#17559))

### Internal Changes

- Add more tracing to experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint. ([\#17514](element-hq/synapse#17514))
- Fixup comment in sliding sync implementation. ([\#17531](element-hq/synapse#17531))
- Replace override of deprecated method `HTTPAdapter.get_connection` with `get_connection_with_tls_context`. ([\#17536](element-hq/synapse#17536))
- Fix performance of device lists in `/key/changes` and sliding sync. ([\#17537](element-hq/synapse#17537), [\#17548](element-hq/synapse#17548))
- Bump setuptools from 67.6.0 to 72.1.0. ([\#17542](element-hq/synapse#17542))
- Add a utility function for generating random event IDs. ([\#17557](element-hq/synapse#17557))
- Speed up responding to media requests. ([\#17558](element-hq/synapse#17558), [\#17561](element-hq/synapse#17561), [\#17564](element-hq/synapse#17564), [\#17566](element-hq/synapse#17566), [\#17567](element-hq/synapse#17567), [\#17569](element-hq/synapse#17569))
- Test github token before running release script steps. ([\#17562](element-hq/synapse#17562))
- Reduce log spam of multipart files. ([\#17563](element-hq/synapse#17563))
- Refactor per-connection state in experimental sliding sync handler. ([\#17574](element-hq/synapse#17574))
- Add histogram metrics for sliding sync processing time. ([\#17593](element-hq/synapse#17593))



### Updates to locked dependencies

* Bump bytes from 1.6.1 to 1.7.1. ([\#17526](element-hq/synapse#17526))
* Bump lxml from 5.2.2 to 5.3.0. ([\#17550](element-hq/synapse#17550))
* Bump phonenumbers from 8.13.42 to 8.13.43. ([\#17551](element-hq/synapse#17551))
* Bump regex from 1.10.5 to 1.10.6. ([\#17527](element-hq/synapse#17527))
* Bump sentry-sdk from 2.10.0 to 2.12.0. ([\#17553](element-hq/synapse#17553))
* Bump serde from 1.0.204 to 1.0.206. ([\#17556](element-hq/synapse#17556))
* Bump serde_json from 1.0.122 to 1.0.124. ([\#17555](element-hq/synapse#17555))
* Bump sigstore/cosign-installer from 3.5.0 to 3.6.0. ([\#17549](element-hq/synapse#17549))
* Bump types-pyyaml from 6.0.12.20240311 to 6.0.12.20240808. ([\#17552](element-hq/synapse#17552))
* Bump types-requests from 2.31.0.20240406 to 2.32.0.20240712. ([\#17524](element-hq/synapse#17524))

# Synapse 1.113.0 (2024-08-13)

No significant changes since 1.113.0rc1.




# Synapse 1.113.0rc1 (2024-08-06)

### Features

- Track which rooms have been sent to clients in the experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint. ([\#17447](element-hq/synapse#17447))
- Add Account Data extension support to experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint. ([\#17477](element-hq/synapse#17477))
- Add receipts extension support to experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint. ([\#17489](element-hq/synapse#17489))
- Add typing notification extension support to experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint. ([\#17505](element-hq/synapse#17505))

### Bugfixes

- Update experimental [MSC3575](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#3575) Sliding Sync `/sync` endpoint to handle invite/knock rooms when filtering. ([\#17450](element-hq/synapse#17450))
- Fix a bug introduced in v1.110.0 which caused `/keys/query` to return incomplete results, leading to high network activity and CPU usage on Matrix clients. ([\#17499](element-hq/synapse#17499))

### Improved Documentation

- Update the [`allowed_local_3pids`](https://element-hq.github.io/synapse/v1.112/usage/configuration/config_documentation.html#allowed_local_3pids) config option's msisdn address to a working example. ([\#17476](element-hq/synapse#17476))

### Internal Changes

- Change sliding sync to use their own token format in preparation for storing per-connection state. ([\#17452](element-hq/synapse#17452))
- Ensure we don't send down negative `bump_stamp` in experimental sliding sync endpoint. ([\#17478](element-hq/synapse#17478))
- Do not send down empty room entries down experimental sliding sync endpoint. ([\#17479](element-hq/synapse#17479))
- Refactor Sliding Sync tests to better utilize the `SlidingSyncBase`. ([\#17481](element-hq/synapse#17481), [\#17482](element-hq/synapse#17482))
- Add some opentracing tags and logging to the experimental sliding sync implementation. ([\#17501](element-hq/synapse#17501))
- Split and move Sliding Sync tests so we have some more sane test file sizes. ([\#17504](element-hq/synapse#17504))
- Update the `limited` field description in the Sliding Sync response to accurately describe what it actually represents. ([\#17507](element-hq/synapse#17507))
- Easier to understand `timeline` assertions in Sliding Sync tests. ([\#17511](element-hq/synapse#17511))
- Reset the sliding sync connection if we don't recognize the per-connection state position. ([\#17529](element-hq/synapse#17529))



### Updates to locked dependencies

* Bump bcrypt from 4.1.3 to 4.2.0. ([\#17495](element-hq/synapse#17495))
* Bump black from 24.4.2 to 24.8.0. ([\#17522](element-hq/synapse#17522))
* Bump phonenumbers from 8.13.39 to 8.13.42. ([\#17521](element-hq/synapse#17521))
* Bump ruff from 0.5.4 to 0.5.5. ([\#17494](element-hq/synapse#17494))
* Bump serde_json from 1.0.120 to 1.0.121. ([\#17493](element-hq/synapse#17493))
* Bump serde_json from 1.0.121 to 1.0.122. ([\#17525](element-hq/synapse#17525))
* Bump towncrier from 23.11.0 to 24.7.1. ([\#17523](element-hq/synapse#17523))
* Bump types-pyopenssl from 24.1.0.20240425 to 24.1.0.20240722. ([\#17496](element-hq/synapse#17496))
* Bump types-setuptools from 70.1.0.20240627 to 71.1.0.20240726. ([\#17497](element-hq/synapse#17497))
// Flag which only returns rooms which have an `m.room.encryption` state event. If unset,
// both encrypted and unencrypted rooms are returned. If false, only unencrypted rooms
// are returned. If true, only encrypted rooms are returned.
"is_invite": true|false|null,
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How will knocks and left rooms be handled? Maybe this should be a string and be the current membership of the user?

A simpler alternative is to use `/messages` to fetch the history. This has two main problems: 1) clients generally want
to preload history for multiple rooms at once, and 2) `/messages` can be slow if it tries to backfill over federation.

We could implement a bulk `/messages` endpoint, where the client would specify multiple rooms and `prev_batch` tokens.
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As described in element-hq/synapse#17579 (comment), another alternative would be to just use another initial sync request with an increased timeline_limit. The linked comment describes more details for client implementations as well.

Cross-link to the main discussion about moving away from expanded_timeline -> #4186 (comment)

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This sounds like it needs to be incorporated into the MSC? What are the downsides of this? It seems fairly elegant.

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erikjohnston commented Sep 29, 2025

I think this is ready for the SCT to read and weigh in on. In particular, attention should be paid to the changelog at the bottom that lists all the things that I propose we change from the current implementation (there are also some notes in the body of the text where things haven't been implemented by synapse).

I think the "controversial/open" questions that should get SCT agreement are the following, including my votes on the subjects (which reflect the current MSC):

  1. Should we implement "sticky" lists? My vote is: yes no. Thread
  2. Should we rename the pos parameters? My vote is: no. Thread
  3. Should we implement the notification counts? My vote is: yes. Thread
  4. Should we deduplicate heroes between heroes and required_state? My vote is: no. Thread
  5. Should we replace timeline_limit expansion with a bulk /messages API? My vote is: no. Thread

@mscbot fcp merge

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mscbot commented Sep 29, 2025

Team member @mscbot has proposed to merge this. The next step is review by the rest of the tagged people:

Concerns:

  • Pending complete implementation (action: remove needs-implementation label)

Once at least 75% of reviewers approve (and there are no outstanding concerns), this will enter its final comment period. If you spot a major issue that hasn't been raised at any point in this process, please speak up!

See this document for information about what commands tagged team members can give me.

@mscbot mscbot added proposed-final-comment-period Currently awaiting signoff of a majority of team members in order to enter the final comment period. disposition-merge labels Sep 29, 2025
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erikjohnston commented Sep 29, 2025

MSCs proposed for Final Comment Period (FCP) should meet the requirements outlined in the checklist prior to being accepted into the spec. This checklist is a bit long, but aims to reduce the number of follow-on MSCs after a feature lands.

SCT members: please check off things you check for, and raise a concern against FCP if the checklist is incomplete. If an item doesn't apply, prefer to check it rather than remove it. Unchecking items is encouraged where applicable.

MSC authors: feel free to ask in a thread on your MSC or in the#matrix-spec:matrix.org room for clarification of any of these points.

  • Are appropriate implementation(s) specified in the MSC’s PR description?
  • Are all MSCs that this MSC depends on already accepted?
  • For each new endpoint that is introduced:
    • Have authentication requirements been specified?
    • Have rate-limiting requirements been specified?
    • Have guest access requirements been specified?
    • Are error responses specified?
      • Does each error case have a specified errcode (e.g. M_FORBIDDEN) and HTTP status code?
        • If a new errcode is introduced, is it clear that it is new?
  • Will the MSC require a new room version, and if so, has that been made clear?
    • Is the reason for a new room version clearly stated? For example, modifying the set of redacted fields changes how event IDs are calculated, thus requiring a new room version.
  • Are backwards-compatibility concerns appropriately addressed?
  • Are the endpoint conventions honoured?
    • Do HTTP endpoints use_underscores_like_this?
    • Will the endpoint return unbounded data? If so, has pagination been considered?
    • If the endpoint utilises pagination, is it consistent with the appendices?
  • An introduction exists and clearly outlines the problem being solved. Ideally, the first paragraph should be understandable by a non-technical audience.
  • All outstanding threads are resolved
    • All feedback is incorporated into the proposal text itself, either as a fix or noted as an alternative
  • While the exact sections do not need to be present, the details implied by the proposal template are covered. Namely:
    • Introduction
    • Proposal text
    • Potential issues
    • Alternatives
    • Dependencies
  • Stable identifiers are used throughout the proposal, except for the unstable prefix section
    • Unstable prefixes consider the awkward accepted-but-not-merged state
    • Chosen unstable prefixes do not pollute any global namespace (use “org.matrix.mscXXXX”, not “org.matrix”).
  • Changes have applicable Sign Off from all authors/editors/contributors
  • There is a dedicated "Security Considerations" section which detail any possible attacks/vulnerabilities this proposal may introduce, even if this is "None.". See RFC3552 for things to think about, but in particular pay attention to the OWASP Top Ten.

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overall lgtm. I'm aligned with @erikjohnston's votes at #4186 (comment)

@turt2live turt2live moved this from Proposed for FCP readiness to Ready for FCP ticks in Spec Core Team Workflow Sep 30, 2025
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clokep commented Sep 30, 2025

I think the "controversial/open" questions that should get SCT agreement are the following, including my votes on the subjects (which reflect the current MSC):

I've already given a bunch of reviews on here, so I thought highlighting my stance on these questions might be the most useful thing.

  1. Should we implement "sticky" lists? My vote is: yes. Thread

This feels like a thing we can add in later easily by having clients opt into a list being sticky. I'm not seeing a great cost savings by doing this right now (at further complexity to the API).

  1. Should we rename the pos parameters? My vote is: no. Thread

Yes. It is completely inconsistent with our current APIs. See matrix-org/matrix-spec#125, matrix-org/matrix-spec#1280.

  1. Should we implement the notification counts? My vote is: yes. Thread

I don't see why not? Is the concern performance?

  1. Should we deduplicate heroes between heroes and required_state? My vote is: no. Thread

I don't have a strong opinion, but I think no -- that's pushing complexity onto the client.

  1. Should we replace timeline_limit expansion with a bulk /messages API? My vote is: no. Thread

I'm not sure, it feels like it would simplify this API a lot and there's a bunch of good alternatives that don't have their pros/cons explored in the MSC. I think there's something missing here.

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@mscbot concern Pending complete implementation (action: remove needs-implementation label)

Note: anyone on the SCT should be able to @mscbot resolve this concern. Just highlighting that implementation isn't quite there yet.

@mscbot mscbot added the unresolved-concerns This proposal has at least one outstanding concern label Sep 30, 2025
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Labels
00-weekly-pings Tracking for weekly pings in the SCT office. 00 to make it first in the labels list. client-server Client-Server API disposition-merge feature Suggestion for a significant extension which needs considerable consideration kind:core MSC which is critical to the protocol's success matrix-2.0 Required for Matrix 2.0 needs-implementation This MSC does not have a qualifying implementation for the SCT to review. The MSC cannot enter FCP. proposal A matrix spec change proposal proposed-final-comment-period Currently awaiting signoff of a majority of team members in order to enter the final comment period. unresolved-concerns This proposal has at least one outstanding concern
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