Disable invites for 1:1 private DMs/direct chats by default OR ask for 2nd user's consent before actually inviting

[opusforlife2]

Suggestion

Please read element-hq/element-meta#320 for context.

I would like for all clients/servers to disallow inviting a 3rd user into a private 1:1 chat by default.

If a user wants advanced functionality by inviting bots or personal assistants, that should involve an extra step or two, not the other way around, as the workaround suggested in the linked issue does.

The most straightforward method of creating and using a 1:1 chat, without tweaking anything, should cater to the average non-tech-savvy user, someone who would have no idea of the consequences of being part of a 1:1 chat where both users are admins and can invite all and sundry to become part of a potentially private conversation.

This could be a very targeted, narrow component of #289.

Alternative

I would like for all clients/servers to ask the 2nd user for consent before sending out an invite to any 3rd user to a private 1:1 chat. This will ensure that no single user can abuse their admin privilege to allow others to gatecrash a private conversation.

[Half-Shot]

As per matrix-org/synapse#10000 (comment), I'm closing this. Please keep the conversation limited to element-web until a conclusion has been reached.

[t3chguy]

The issue really does not belong only in Element Web, its about the application of DMs across the protocol, not about the path that Element specifically takes.

[Half-Shot]

Okay, I don't think we need three issues to track this bug though. We can keep this one open instead though.

[ShadowJonathan]

Please don't make an issue on matrix-org/synapse, expecting the synapse team to immediately cede to your request, prioritisation exists.

While this may be an important issue for you, to me it looks like this requires some heavy-handed changes to the spec to disallow such invitations, though right now this is not requested or even desired behaviour due to account migrations, where someone might invite and op a new account to a DM, and have their old account leave, Element themselves (Element Home) uses this approach.

Until Decentralized Accounts exist (matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#2787), I don't see this latter part changing, and maybe it'll be possible to fold this behaviour into Canonical DMs (matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#2199), where it can be part of the whole "DM" mode of communication.

[opusforlife2]

You guys are the maintainers with experience on which repo the issue belongs in, so closing the other 2 issues is fine by me.

expecting the synapse team to immediately cede to your request

There was no expectation of that, the only expectation I had was that someone would think "yeah, it seems like a serious problem, lets prioritise this issue". If you decide this should go through the standard MSC process, that is fine.

[opusforlife2]

where someone might invite and op a new account to a DM, and have their old account leave, Element themselves (Element Home) uses this approach.

This is also advanced functionality, only needed by tech experts or power users at the maximum, and I'm all for such facilities existing, but not by default. That way lies madness.

A great example is Firefox. You can tweak about:config to your heart's extent to get your desired behaviour out of it, but the browser comes with sane defaults and doesn't expose users to gory details or expert level behaviour until they explicitly opt into it.

[t3chguy]

This is also advanced functionality, only needed by tech experts or power users at the maximum

No it isn't

Element Home (https://element.io/blog/element-home/) wraps it up as part of a really simple flow,
but if your rooms are set up in the way you describe then they will be entirely lost in the migration

[opusforlife2]

I'm not saying average users shouldn't be able to migrate to Element Home.

What I mean is, you, as a coder, can implement this however you like, but the functionality doesn't need to be exposed to the average user.

Most of the issue is about visibility of advanced options.

[t3chguy]

Given federation/decentralisation it pretty much is limited to being implemented as inviting the user identity you are migrating to and leaving from the old identity, given this proposal disables that ability, it'll break the migration of DMs

[opusforlife2]

Okay, now I get it. Yeah, Canonical/Immutable DMs should already have been implemented before Element Home migration was created. Then it would have taken a different route.